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t0xeus
hi it's me t0x
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Social Butterfly
- Oct 4, 2024
- #1
Let's say the cut off is age 12
Rikudo Sennin LOL
Well-Known Member
- Oct 4, 2024
- #2
Itachi is better than the founders Hashirama admitted inferiority to Itachi
Jay uchiha
These eyes see the darkness quite well
- Oct 4, 2024
- #3
As far as the portrayal goes yes.
Itachi was stated to think like a hokage at age 7 and was able to master basic ninjutsu and graduate from the academy at age 6.
ベジータ
サイヤ人の王子
Night King
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Xmas Sock- Christmas Event 2021
Let it Snow-2021 Edition
- Oct 4, 2024
- #4
He was probably the strongest at any young age with the exception of Gaara if we count his Biju transformation.
Illusory
Well-Known Member
- Oct 4, 2024
- #5
Not sure why the Founders would surpass or even compete with him as a child prodigy.
Itachi was throwing equal hands with MS Shisui at age 11 and both were known to surpass war-legend Fugaku by Danzo/Hiruzen.
At age 5, he was using CES to shatter boulder, by age 7 Hiruzen acknowledged he thought like a Hokage, etc.
Nobody comes close to Itachi in terms of precociousness. And the kid was being held back by Konoha per Danzo.
t0xeus
hi it's me t0x
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Social Butterfly
- Oct 4, 2024
- #6
Illusory said:
Not sure why the Founders would surpass or even compete with him as a child prodigy.
Itachi was throwing equal hands with MS Shisui at age 11 and both were known to surpass war-legend Fugaku by Danzo/Hiruzen.
At age 5, he was using CES to shatter boulder, by age 7 Hiruzen acknowledged he thought like a Hokage, etc.
Nobody comes close to Itachi in terms of precociousness. And the kid was being held back by Konoha per Danzo.
Uchiha and Senju were the strongest clans in the world, and as kids Hashirama and Sharingan-less Madara were stronger than the average adult of those clans (so probably already either top jonin level or something like that).
Depending on how old they were during that time, it'd make them stronger than Itachi for that age, who was only stated to be >chunnin level at 7y/o.
Illusory
Well-Known Member
- Oct 4, 2024
- #7
t0xeus said:
Uchiha and Senju were the strongest clans in the world, and as kids Hashirama and Sharingan-less Madara were stronger than the average adult of those clans (so probably already either top jonin level or something like that).
Depending on how old they were during that time, it'd make them stronger than Itachi for that age, who was only stated to be >chunnin level at 7y/o.
They were each stated to be the strongest in their clans by age 7?
If so, then alright, Itachi can be 3rd lmao. I don't think Itachi has an argument to surpass Fugaku until age 10 at the earliest IMO.
t0xeus
hi it's me t0x
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Social Butterfly
- Oct 4, 2024
- #8
Illusory said:
They were each stated to be the strongest in their clans by age 7?
If so, then alright, Itachi can be 3rd lmao. I don't think Itachi has an argument to surpass Fugaku until age 10 at the earliest IMO.
No, but they were stated to be > average adult in two of the strongest clans in the verse at that point (when everyone lived in a clan too).
And we don't know how old they were during that point in time, so if they were younger than Itachi was when he sparred Shisui, that would make them more impressive.
Illusory
Well-Known Member
- Oct 4, 2024
- #9
t0xeus said:
No, but they were stated to be > average adult in two of the strongest clans in the verse at that point (when everyone lived in a clan too).
And we don't know how old they were during that point in time, so if they were younger than Itachi was when he sparred Shisui, that would make them more impressive.
Eh, they looked more like ~12 to me in the flashback personally.
Itachi (age 9) beating Shisui (older) in a spar is far above beating an 'average adult Uchiha' IMO
Where is the age 7 number for Madara/Hashi coming from though?
t0xeus
hi it's me t0x
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Social Butterfly
- Oct 4, 2024
- #10
Illusory said:
Eh, they looked more like ~12 to me in the flashback personally.
Itachi (age 9) beating Shisui (older) in a spar is far above beating an 'average adult Uchiha' IMO
Where is the age 7 number for Madara/Hashi coming from though?
Bro appearance-wise 12yo and 13yo Itachi looks like he's 20 though
The age 7 was for Itachi. I am just saying IF Madara and Hashi were 7 back then, it'd make them superior to age 7 Itachi
Illusory
Well-Known Member
- Oct 4, 2024
- #11
t0xeus said:
Bro appearance-wise 12yo and 13yo Itachi looks like he's 20 though
I think it varied panel to panel (when carrying Sasuke on his back, he looked that age. When standing over his mom and dad, could be 16+ easy), but if we weren't explicitly told in the databook/novels, I wouldn't argue he was necessarily the age he was.
t0xeus said:
I am just saying IF Madara and Hashi were 7 back then, it'd make them superior to age 7 Itachi
I agree, but I think arguing they were 7 based on appearance (because Kishi doesn't draw young characters to look young a lot) is a bit of a stretch there. Hashi's dad called Kid Madara a shinobi genius for beating some Senju adults, but it wasn't all that crazy of hype beyond that imo like we have for Itachi and Shisui being stronger than Fugaku shortly before Shisui's death, or Deidara being headhunted by Akatsuki.
t0xeus
hi it's me t0x
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Social Butterfly
- Oct 4, 2024
- #12
Illusory said:
I think it varied panel to panel (when carrying Sasuke on his back, he looked that age. When standing over his mom and dad, could be 16+ easy), but if we weren't explicitly told in the databook/novels, I wouldn't argue he was necessarily the age he was.
Yeah looks can be deceiving. But I'd actually argue Madara and Hashirama look younger than the kids in P1 who were 12yo.
Illusory said:
I agree, but I think arguing they were 7 based on appearance (because Kishi doesn't draw young characters to look young a lot) is a bit of a stretch there. Hashi's dad called Kid Madara a shinobi genius for beating some Senju adults, but it wasn't all that crazy of hype beyond that imo like we have for Itachi and Shisui being stronger than Fugaku shortly before Shisui's death.
But I am not arguing that. Just saying it's a possibility and since we don't know Founders' age from that scene, we can't really say Itachi was more prodigious than they are. Hence why I excluded them
And IMO being > Senju adults is crazy hype when Senjus are the strongest clan in the verse at that time. Basically a group of strongest shinobis alive. And 0T Madara can beat them up (and he then awakens 1T that same year).
DaVizWiz
Well-Known Member
- Oct 4, 2024
- #13
Itachi hit his pinnacle early on, there wasn’t much potential left, so prodigy generally doesn’t apply here in the cultural sense (He’s already doing this, he’s going to be amazing), only the traditional (he’s pretty good)
Teaching your kid to play Symphony No. 5 at 5 years old doesn’t mean he’ll ever be a Beethoven, let alone a professional pianist
Additionally, dunking on people at the park at 12 doesn’t mean you’d even make a D1 roster at 30
Itachi relied entirely on his Dojutsu as a shinobi, and it wasn’t elite, he was in third place in his speciality (Rinnegan > Kamui > Itachi’s MS), he wasn’t going to ever be the best shinobi alive, I don’t think anyone around thought so either aside from Madara (though it’s clear this was more fan service straight from the author).
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The Great One
Well-Known Member
- Oct 4, 2024
- #14
Minato is.
He didn't had Rikudou lineage giving him amps.
Standard Background
Well-Known Member
- Oct 6, 2024
- #15
Minato
Gaara
Kimmi
Are all formidable comparisons if you swamp them with Itachi.
Prince Idonojie
Well-Known Member
- Oct 6, 2024
- #16
By reason of his bloodline (power) & circumstance (life xp & encounters), Itachi actually peak early, after which he slowly declined overall.
Tbh, I even question if he ever had the potential capacity to handle the EMS power like Sasuke & Madara.
neostrosity
Follower of Gokuism
- Oct 7, 2024
- #17
In a sense? He awakened his sharingan and mangekyo early and discovered the peak of his power earlier than most others did, even if they later on surpassed him.
I don't think that makes him comparable to founders as a prodigy though. They were monsters who not only were insanely powerful for their age, but also kept getting stronger, whereas Itachi hit his ceiling.
Final Fantasy
What's your favorite Wuxia or Xianxia?
- Oct 7, 2024
- #18
For all those saying Itachi reached his ceiling, he didn't. He can copy jutsus with the sharingan.
Prometheus
¢σηѕтєℓℓαтιση "тнє вαѕє ѕєяρєηт"
- Oct 7, 2024
- #19
I see Itachi, Kakashi and Minato equal as 'prodigies' at that age.
Shazam
⚡⚡⚡
- Oct 7, 2024
- #20
Rikudo Sennin LOL said:
Itachi is better than the founders
Hashirama admitted inferiority to Itachi
And juubito admitted defeat to Jiraiya.
This boy born without any special talent, KKG, prodigal father or clan….
Final Fantasy
What's your favorite Wuxia or Xianxia?
- Oct 7, 2024
- #21
t0xeus said:
The age 7 was for Itachi. I am just saying IF Madara and Hashi were 7 back then, it'd make them superior to age 7 Itachi
It's unlikely Madara was 7, since Sasuke was said to have more potential then him and was only chunin level at 12.
Prometheus
¢σηѕтєℓℓαтιση "тнє вαѕє ѕєяρєηт"
- Oct 7, 2024
- #22
Shazam said:
And juubito admitted defeat to Jiraiya
Even these are different cases btw.
Obito was like "Jiraiya was the one who trained Naruto, so uh... Jiraiya beat me"
While Hashi said "As a shinobi, your older brother is better than me"
Neither are strength comparisons btw lol...
Shazam
⚡⚡⚡
- Oct 7, 2024
- #23
Prometheus said:
Even these are different cases btw.
Obito was like "Jiraiya was the one who trained Naruto, so uh... Jiraiya beat me"
While Hashi said "As a shinobi, your older brother is better than me"
Neither are strength comparisons btw lol...
We know…
M
Madaesxs
Banned
- Oct 7, 2024
- #24
Since becoming ill he already had a predetermined ceiling, and knew he was a vessel for his own brother to reach his full potential.
Sure Itachi will always be the more genius brother but being a prodigy is more than just having a fitting mind to be the best at something, it’s also having the endurance at being the best and in a marathon of becoming the strongest shinobi he’d always be second Sasuke bc his potential cuts off at “Mangekyou” or the age of 21 or even if he poured himself into becoming a Jinchuuriki to somehow overcome his illness he’d probably never be able to beat Obito at the game so even if Itachi ideally wanted to stay alive and poured himself into getting cured he’d be up against nature itself and it’d most definitely not have mercy on him.
Obito would likely kill him before he even begins to search for his cure.
So his potential remains limited than Sasuke who’s also a genius to an extent and since Sasuke always had a brighter future he quite clearly seems to be the bigger prodigy who’s more blessed to reach his full potential and thus even before we realize Sasuke was always housing Indra’s soul therefore being chosen by the transmigrant’s power he’s meant to be the bigger genius by virtue of a healthier body and being the chosen to have the eternal Mangekyou.
That’s at least how I see it.
Effectively my answer is no, it’s Sasuke, and by extension Naruto is kind of a progidy himself, he mastered SM at the ripe age of 16. Quite an absurd achievement if you ask me given Jiraiya failed epically at his age and no one else in the series achieves perfect SM after Minato dies
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Rikudo Sennin LOL
Well-Known Member
- Oct 7, 2024
- #25
Shazam said:
And juubito admitted defeat to Jiraiya.
This boy born without any special talent, KKG, prodigal father or clan….
Shazam said:
We know…
t0xeus
hi it's me t0x
Straight laces
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Social Butterfly
- Oct 7, 2024
- #26
Final Fantasy said:
It's unlikely Madara was 7, since Sasuke was said to have more potential then him and was only chunin level at 12.
But that was said about Sasuke at ~15 y/o though.
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